Third Shooter Witnesses: Difference between revisions
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Wiseman's account matches the known activities of Harris & Klebold. | Wiseman's account matches the known activities of Harris & Klebold. | ||
<big>4. Daphne Bacca [pp.8894]</big> | |||
Daphne Bacca was an officer from the Littleton Police Department and was not a witness to the crime. | |||
Bacca was added to this list simply because she reported the names of 4 possible suspects: Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Chris Morris, and Robert Perry. This doesn't qualify as suspect identification. It just means Bacca was reporting on the names of suspects provided by witnesses. | |||
'''<u>From Bacca's interview</u>''': | |||
"It should also be noted that Daphne Bacca had listed four names of possible suspects. Those names included Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Chris Morris, and Robert Perry. It is unknown to this IO how Daphne Bacca had gleaned that information." (Source: p.8895) | |||
<big>5. Devon Adams [pp.10614-10618]</big> | |||
Adams wasn't on campus during the shooting and didn't identify any suspects. She told police she thought three specific people were directly involved. However, she named these three individuals based solely on her personal feelings toward and perception of the individuals. This doesn't qualify as suspect identification. | |||
'''<u>From Adams' interview</u>''': | |||
"I asked Devon who else was involved directly in the Columbine incident, and she, without hesitation stated, [redacted], [redacted], and [redacted]. I asked why she thought that, ad Devon got quiet, and again looked down to the floor, then she stated that she just knew." (Source: p.10616) | |||
When Devon was asked about why she felt [redacted] might be involved with the incident, she said [redacted] had in the past threaten [sic] her on the computer over a [sic] incident at Columbine. She said she did not have any proof he was involved other than he gets mad very easy and likes to kick in cars." | |||
"When asked about [redacted], she said he like [sic] to beat up his girl friends and other people for no reason. She said her only reason for giving his name was that he scared her." | |||
"When asked about [redacted], she said he was on the Columbine debate team with her last year. During one meeting he was mad at someone and was looking for a pipe to beat them up with. Devon said he was a very violet person. She said he quit school one semester before he was to graduate." (Source: p.10618) | |||
===== '''<u>Witnesses removed because of hearsay</u>''' ===== | ===== '''<u>Witnesses removed because of hearsay</u>''' ===== | ||
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"SA Traver then provided photos that had been taken from the cafeteria video camera. After looking at photo #52, from Packet A. Frye stated that the image of Dylan Klebold did look like the person he saw shooting people outside of the school on 4/20/99. He stated that he remembers the firearm being in the person's left hand, and the black ball cap being on backwards, as they are represented in the picture. He stated that on a scale of 1 to 10 he would say that he would give it a seven, that he was sure that this [Klebold] was the person he saw." (Source: p.815, p.816) | "SA Traver then provided photos that had been taken from the cafeteria video camera. After looking at photo #52, from Packet A. Frye stated that the image of Dylan Klebold did look like the person he saw shooting people outside of the school on 4/20/99. He stated that he remembers the firearm being in the person's left hand, and the black ball cap being on backwards, as they are represented in the picture. He stated that on a scale of 1 to 10 he would say that he would give it a seven, that he was sure that this [Klebold] was the person he saw." (Source: p.815, p.816) | ||
<big>4. Crystal Archuleta [pp.2363-2370]</big> | |||
Archuleta saw 1 suspect throwing a bomb whom she initially named as [redacted]. The police accidentally revealed that [redacted] was Robert Perry. Prior to the shooting, Archuleta didn't know Harris or Klebold by face or name. She identified Perry based on his 1997 yearbook photo and said she had seen him around school in his trench coat. | |||
Archuleta only saw the suspect's profile for a second or two and described him as "tall, wearing a black trench coat, a black ball cap on backwards, and black warm-up type pants with black high top tennis shoes." (Source: p.2365) | |||
She told investigators the suspect "had on a baseball cap that had a red letter on the front of it." When shown a photo of Dylan Klebold, Archuleta said she believed that is the suspect she saw. (Source: p.2370) | |||
'''<u>From Archuleta's interview</u>''': | |||
"Crystal observed a male party wearing a trench coat, a black ball cap turned around backwards, very tall; that Crystal believed to be a student that she knew as a [redacted]. Crystal observed the party in the trench coat throw one pipe bomb on the hill above the cafeteria. She did not see the party carrying a gun. The party was alone and had no one with him as he then walked up the stairs and into the entrance door next to the library." | |||
"When asked by det. Demmel how she knew it was [redacted] (Perry), she said that Perry was pigeon toe'd [sic] and that the person was walking that way and went up the stairs in a very distinct pigeon toe'd [sic] manner." (Source: p.2364) | |||
"At this time I brought out photos #51 and 54 and had Crystal view them. Crystal looked at Dylan klebold and said that she believed that is the person she saw on the top of the hill. Crystal said that when she saw the male on the hill, he did have a baseball cap on, but in the pictures there is no baseball cap. I asked Crystal if it's a possibility that she saw Dylan and not [redacted] (Perry). She said yes, after looking at the pictures, she does believe that it was Dylan and not [redacted] (Perry)." (Source: p.2370) | |||
===== '''<u>Witnesses removed for other reasons</u>''' ===== | |||
<big>1. David Eagle [pp.1877-1886]</big> | |||
Eagle did not identify any suspects because he didn't see any faces. Eagle was removed from the list because the inability to identify a suspect doesn't, by itself, constitute support for a third shooter. | |||
Peering through a classroom window, Eagle saw 1 suspect matching Dylan Klebold's description. He didn't know Klebold or Harris from school and didn't recognize the suspect as Harris or Klebold based on photos broadcast by the media. However, Eagle acknowledged that he never saw the suspect's face due to smoke. If he never saw the suspect's face, he wouldn't recognize the photos of Harris & Klebold's faces. | |||
'''<u>From Eagle's interview</u>''': | |||
"The guy with the gun had black hair looked like it was spiked, shaved on the sides. It also was blond on top (little part). Couldn't see his face because of the smoke. He was a white male, about 5'9", about 18 yrs old, no facial hair, (unsure didn't [??] because of smoke), clothing, he had a black shirt..." (Source: p.1878, p.1879) | |||
"David described this person holding the gun as someone with black shaved hair with blonde streaks. The hair was longer on the top than it was on the bottom. He couldn't see any facial features because of the smoke and shadows. He has since seen pictures of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold on television. He did not know these students from school. David said that the person he saw did not look like the people he's seen on television. | |||
David said that he saw the person with the gun from the chest up. He could see a black shirt; the sleeves stopping on the arms, like a tee shirt would fit. David said that there was another person standing next to the killer, but he couldn't see that person at all." (Source: 1881) | |||
== Revised list of testimony that could support a third suspect == | == Revised list of testimony that could support a third suspect == | ||
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'''<u>Revised testimony</u>''': "Me and my friends were about 100 yards away from the people. There were 3 of them, 2 wearing trench coats & 1 wearing a white shirt... We got up & saw the kid in the white throw what looked like grenades on the roof." (Source: p.1262) | '''<u>Revised testimony</u>''': "Me and my friends were about 100 yards away from the people. There were 3 of them, 2 wearing trench coats & 1 wearing a white shirt... We got up & saw the kid in the white throw what looked like grenades on the roof." (Source: p.1262) | ||
<big>7. Courtney Haulman [pp.839-844]</big> | |||
Haulman saw three males in black trench coats standing near the West entrance to the school at the top of the stairs where the shooting began. | |||
'''<u>From Haulman's interview</u>''': | |||
"There was three guys, the guy I remember most was the main guy. He's over 6 feet tall and has long curly dark-colored hair. He was wearing a black trench coat. His name is [redacted]." (Source: p.840) | |||
"Haulman stated that she observed three males in black trench coats standing next to the stairs which lead [sic] to the West entrance of the school. Haulman described gunman number one as a white male, approximately 17 yoa, 6'3", medium build, long curly dark hair, wearing a black trench coat, dark colored pants, carrying a long gun (unknown color). | |||
Haulman described gunman number two as a white male, 16 to 17 yoa, shorter than gunman number one, medium build, no hat, no mask, dark clothing, to include black trench coat, with grenade type things hanging on his shirt, dark in color. | |||
Haulman described perceived suspect number three as a white male with a black trench coat, white shirt, carrying something odd in shape (unable to describe). Haulman stated that she recognized gunman one and two as individuals she had seen in school before." (Source: p.841) | |||
"Haulman stated that while standing outside on the Southwest corner of the cafeteria, peeking around the corner, she observed gunman number one and two standing in close proximity of each other and that the third gunman was standing above them on the stairs." (Source: p.842) | |||
"...she looked around the corner and observed what she thought was two persons with weapons and a third person with them possibly talking to them or yelling at them and that she could not tell if the third party had a weapon... Haulman was shown photos #46, 48, 51, and 54 and she was unable to identify anyone in the photos and did not know if these were the same persons she had seen doing the shooting." (Source: p.844) | |||
<big>8. Dick Strange [pp.1193-1195]</big> | |||
Strange was a mechanic working for the Foothills Park and Recreation District and was with a client at Clement Park when the incident began. While he reported seeing "four to five" people in trench coats, he saw only one suspect with a weapon that matched Harris' description. | |||
Strange reported seeing "four to five" individuals in black trench coats standing near the Columbine High School gym at 11:45 a.m. Strange says he then saw the individuals walk toward the cafeteria side of the school and he drove along a bike path toward the school and lost sight of the people in trench coats. | |||
When he got to a small structure near the baseball field, he said he saw an individual dressed in a trench coat by the Southwest entrance who then dropped his coat, pulled out two guns, and started firing at students around the soccer field. | |||
The suspect described by Strange matches Harris, since Harris dropped his coat in front of the Southwest entrance of the school and then began firing at kids on the soccer field. However, his timing might be a little bit off. | |||
'''<u>From Strange's interview</u>''': | |||
"It was there at approximately 11:45 am that STRANGE first observed four to five individuals, all dressed in black trench coats, standing alongisde CHS in the vicinity of the gymnasium... STRANGE then observed these individuals walk Southwest along the high school, heading from the gym towards the cafeteria side of the school." | |||
"As the two men reached the small structure located near the outfield fence of the Southernmost CHS baseball field, STRANGE began hearing what he thought was possibly firecrackers going off. He then observed one individual, dressed in a trench coat, standing in front of the Southwest entrance of CHS, the one with the big glass doors. STRANGE saw this person drop his coat, pull out two guns and begin firing at students socializing in and around the soccer and football field areas. STRANGE also heard explosions going off at this time." (Source: p.1194) |
Revision as of 08:38, 24 December 2022
This page will take a close look at all of the witnesses whose interviews include information that there may have been three or more suspects involved in the Columbine High School Shooting.
The witness interviews analyzed on this page come from a list of 101 witnesses purported to have seen a third suspect compiled in the early days. However, many witnesses on this list should not have been added for various reasons. For example, some of those witnesses didn't see any suspects and were added based on hearsay repeated by someone else. In some cases, the witness identified someone other than Harris or Klebold simply because they heard that individual was a shooter - not because they think they saw them.
These individuals have been removed from that list and a new list has been created that includes only witnesses whose interviews meet the following criteria:
- They described seeing three or more different suspects, either at once, or separately
- They described suspects that don't match Harris or Klebold's descriptions
- They named a suspect other than Harris or Klebold
In order to analyze the testimony that potentially supports the presence of a third suspect, it's important to first eliminate witnesses who do not belong on the list.
Original witness list
This is the original witness list
Witnesses removed from the original list
The following witnesses have been removed from the list of witnesses whose interviews support the possibility of a third (or more) suspect.
Witnesses who did not see any suspects
1. Adam Thompson [pp.2213-2215]
From Thompson's interview:
"He did not observe any of the individuals involved in the attack, or their victims." (Source: p.2215)
2. Alex Babiniec [pp.1752-1756]
From Babiniec's interview:
"He said he does not think he saw any of the trench coat students or associates in school the day of the shooting." (Source: p.1754)
3. Brandi Wiseman [pp.4750-4761]
From Wiseman's interview:
"Brandi said that she looked back toward the West windows and saw an individual, outside, wearing a black trench coat, who appeared to be running South toward the Southwest corner of the cafeteria.
Brandi said that the glimpse she caught of this individual was very brief, and that she did not see his face or any weapon. Brandi said that other than the black trench coat, she did not notice any other clothing or features on this individual." (Source: p.4758)
Wiseman was added to this list because she was hiding in the cafeteria's kitchen and reported hearing gunshots and explosions in the cafeteria and library. The assumption is that Wiseman heard the explosions and gunshots in both places at the same time, therefore there were other shooters, but that's not what her testimony actually says. That's also not evidence of a third shooter.
Wiseman specifically describes hearing people hitting the floor in the library, bookshelves being knocked over, gunshots, and screaming in the library first - then explains that after the commotion in the library, she heard gunshots in the cafeteria. Specifically, she reported hearing the gunmen reloading their weapons, shooting at kitchen appliances, and yelling at each other. (Source: p.4753)
Wiseman's account matches the known activities of Harris & Klebold.
4. Daphne Bacca [pp.8894]
Daphne Bacca was an officer from the Littleton Police Department and was not a witness to the crime.
Bacca was added to this list simply because she reported the names of 4 possible suspects: Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Chris Morris, and Robert Perry. This doesn't qualify as suspect identification. It just means Bacca was reporting on the names of suspects provided by witnesses.
From Bacca's interview:
"It should also be noted that Daphne Bacca had listed four names of possible suspects. Those names included Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Chris Morris, and Robert Perry. It is unknown to this IO how Daphne Bacca had gleaned that information." (Source: p.8895)
5. Devon Adams [pp.10614-10618]
Adams wasn't on campus during the shooting and didn't identify any suspects. She told police she thought three specific people were directly involved. However, she named these three individuals based solely on her personal feelings toward and perception of the individuals. This doesn't qualify as suspect identification.
From Adams' interview:
"I asked Devon who else was involved directly in the Columbine incident, and she, without hesitation stated, [redacted], [redacted], and [redacted]. I asked why she thought that, ad Devon got quiet, and again looked down to the floor, then she stated that she just knew." (Source: p.10616)
When Devon was asked about why she felt [redacted] might be involved with the incident, she said [redacted] had in the past threaten [sic] her on the computer over a [sic] incident at Columbine. She said she did not have any proof he was involved other than he gets mad very easy and likes to kick in cars."
"When asked about [redacted], she said he like [sic] to beat up his girl friends and other people for no reason. She said her only reason for giving his name was that he scared her."
"When asked about [redacted], she said he was on the Columbine debate team with her last year. During one meeting he was mad at someone and was looking for a pipe to beat them up with. Devon said he was a very violet person. She said he quit school one semester before he was to graduate." (Source: p.10618)
Witnesses removed because of hearsay
1. Amy Evans [pp.2960-2965]
From Evans' interview:
"EVANS stated she briefly saw a male wearing a black trench coat running around outside of the cafeteria. She could not describe the person and said she did not see a weapon." (source: p.2962)
Evans was added to the original list because when investigators interviewed Melissa Couris (10k, p.22205), she told them "Evans said there was a third shooter and it was [redacted]." It's clear that if Evans made this statement to Couris, it was not because she saw [redacted]. Why would she say this? Everyone was talking about additional shooters, and its clear Evans was repeating what she heard from others.
Note: Amy Evans was on Harris' "shit list."
2. Amy Terry [pp.2205-2209]
From Terry's interview:
"Terry never saw any suspects, nor did she see any weapons." (Source: 2208)
Terry was added to this list because her friend, Elisha Encinas, told Terry she saw multiple shooters in the cafeteria wearing trench coats and masks, and when running upstairs, she saw an additional 4 people in trench coats coming through the glass doors at the West end of the main hallway. This was not witnessed by Terry.
Witnesses whose identification wasn't genuine
1. Chris Therrien [pp.1202-1208]
Therrien originally could not identify the shooter he saw, but the description matched Dylan Klebold, specifically stating that the suspect had a "large nose."
Only after discussing the incident with Bijen Monte and Brian Frye did Therrien described seeing acne on the shooter's face. Therrien admits to being influenced into thinking he saw [redacted] (Robert Perry) based on what he was told by Monte and Frye.
A sudden description of acne also appears in Frye's follow-up interviews, after he discussed the incident with others. This is a classic example of false memory created by the influence of another witness. In Therrien's case, he admits he was influenced.
Therrien is one of a handful of people who mention seeing acne on a suspect's face, but this group of witnesses only mention acne and name Perry in their second and third interviews, after they heard rumors about Perry's involvement, which suggests they're not stating what they actually saw.
From Therrien's interview:
"Chris saw a tall (6'1") white male, black cap, large nose, shoulder length hair, black trench coat carrying a black 1 1/2 foot long gun, with a "bullet clip" on the underside of the gun." (Source: p.1203, p.1204)
"Chris advised me that he had seen a picture of the person he described to me as the shooter at CHS on the outside steps, North of the cafeteria on 4/20/99. He stated that the picture he saw was of [redacted], and he was "pretty sure" he was the shooter he saw that morning at CHS."
I asked Chris what events lead [sic] up to him looking at a picture of [redacted] and calling me on 5/20/99. He stated that on 5/18/99 he was talking with his friend Bijen Monte, who he was with during the CHS shooting. They were talking about the incident, and Chris advised Bijen that he gave the following description of the investigator that interviewed him. He described the shooter as a WM, 6', large nose, acne, shoulder length hair wearing a black cap, possibly a backwards baseball cap and dark trench coat. He then told Bijen he thinks it was Dylan Klebold, but was not sure.
(Note: Although Therrien says he described seeing acne on the shooter's face in his initial interview, he did not mention acne. This is a classic example of false memory. Monte's story influenced Therrien to believe he saw acne on the shooter's face. The false memory is so strong, he believes he saw the acne from the beginning, but he did not.)
Bijen said it was not Dylan Klebold she saw that morning outside the cafeteria. She then showed Chris a picture of [redacted] from the yearbook. Chris stated that the picture he saw of [redacted] "appeared" to be the person carrying a black 1 1/2 foot long gun at CHS on 4/20/99. Chris stated he also spoke with Brian Frye, who he was with on 4/20/99, and Brian identified [redacted] as a shooter on the outside of the CHS cafeteria." (Source: p.1207, p.1208)
Witnesses who identified Harris or Klebold
1. Alicia Maes [pp.3613-3619]
Alicia initially identified a suspect as [redacted], but revealed she didn't know [redacted] or Klebold before the shooting. If she didn't know [redacted] prior to the shooting, this means she got the name [redacted] from someone else and did not genuinely identify "redacted." She was never shown a lineup when she named "redacted." This means Maes was repeating hearsay. When she saw Klebold's photo on television, she identified Klebold as the suspect she saw.
Another witness, Rachel Nelson, told investigators Maes saw four people with trench coats and guns, but this is hearsay and that's not in Maes' interview.
From Maes' interview:
"She said she saw him reach into his coat and then saw him throw an object into the parking lot. She said she heard an explosion and watched the subject walk toward the soccer field." (Source: p.3614, p.3615)
Note: Other witnesses identified the suspect who threw this bomb into the parking lot as Klebold.
"Alicia stated that when she first observed the male in the black trench coat, she thought it was a person known to her as [redacted]. She advised that now, after seeing pictures of Dylan Klebold, she believes that this person may have been him, not [redacted]." (Source: p.3615)
"She said at this point she looked to the area at the top of the exterior stairs on the west side of the cafeteria and saw a suspect whom she thought was student [redacted]. She clarified that this could have been Dylan Klebold, as she did not know either one of them prior to the shooting." (Source: p.3618)
2. Anthony Sammauro
Sammauro saw one suspect and identified him as Klebold.
From Sammauro's interview:
"...looked out West window and identified Dylan Klebold standing on top of hill by stairs and throwing an object into the West parking lot; saw same looking suspect walking toward West cafeteria door from bottom of stairs moments later; saw no other suspect' saw no guns." (Source: p.4298)
"Identified Dylan Klebold outside the cafeteria when shooting began." (Source: 4300)
"As he was going out the doors, he looked back West and saw who he thought was the same suspect he saw throw the object, Dylan, walking down the bottom of the stairs like he was going to go in the West cafeteria doors." (Source: 4301)
Sammauro allegedly said "two suspects came in the front door and one came in the side door." However, this quote from Sammauro is incorrectly attributed to page 5071, which is the end of Alicia Olejniczak's interview. Like most of these additional quotes that come from the 10k report, this is likely not something Sammauro told investigators, but rather, hearsay from an entirely different witness. If anyone knows the correct page number for this alleged quote, please let us know!
3. Bryan Frye [pp.805-816]
From 30 feet away, Frye saw a shooter matching Dylan Klebold's description, but identified him as Eric Harris.
After hearing a rumor that [redacted] turned himself in for participating in the shooting, and looking up [redacted]'s photo in the yearbook, Frye became convinced [redacted] was the shooter he saw. However, Fry's identification of [redacted] wasn't a genuine identification - it was influenced by the rumor he heard.
Fry is one of a handful of people who mention seeing acne on a suspect's face, but this group of witnesses only mention acne and name Perry in their second and third interviews, after they heard rumors about Perry's involvement, which suggests they're not stating what they actually saw.
From Frye's interview:
"He stated that he saw a person standing by this entrance who was wearing a long black trench coat, black pants, black shirt, and black boots. He said this person was not wearing a hat or a mask and he was sure that this person was Eric Harris. He stated that this person was holding a weapon which he later realized was the TEC-9 which he saw several days later in the newspapers and on television." (Source: p.806, p.807)
"He advised that while at school, he heard a rumor that [redacted] had turned himself in as having been involved in the shootings at Columbine. He went on to say that when he received his yearbook, he began looking at the pictures of both Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris. He said he then looked at the picture of [redacted] and became convinced in his mind that the person he saw outside the student entrance holding and then shooting the TEC-9 was [redacted], not Eric Harris."
"He advised that the shooter took very long strides and was close enough to him - he estimates about fifteen feet, that he saw the acne on his face." (Source: p.813, p.814)
"SA Traver then provided photos that had been taken from the cafeteria video camera. After looking at photo #52, from Packet A. Frye stated that the image of Dylan Klebold did look like the person he saw shooting people outside of the school on 4/20/99. He stated that he remembers the firearm being in the person's left hand, and the black ball cap being on backwards, as they are represented in the picture. He stated that on a scale of 1 to 10 he would say that he would give it a seven, that he was sure that this [Klebold] was the person he saw." (Source: p.815, p.816)
4. Crystal Archuleta [pp.2363-2370]
Archuleta saw 1 suspect throwing a bomb whom she initially named as [redacted]. The police accidentally revealed that [redacted] was Robert Perry. Prior to the shooting, Archuleta didn't know Harris or Klebold by face or name. She identified Perry based on his 1997 yearbook photo and said she had seen him around school in his trench coat.
Archuleta only saw the suspect's profile for a second or two and described him as "tall, wearing a black trench coat, a black ball cap on backwards, and black warm-up type pants with black high top tennis shoes." (Source: p.2365)
She told investigators the suspect "had on a baseball cap that had a red letter on the front of it." When shown a photo of Dylan Klebold, Archuleta said she believed that is the suspect she saw. (Source: p.2370)
From Archuleta's interview:
"Crystal observed a male party wearing a trench coat, a black ball cap turned around backwards, very tall; that Crystal believed to be a student that she knew as a [redacted]. Crystal observed the party in the trench coat throw one pipe bomb on the hill above the cafeteria. She did not see the party carrying a gun. The party was alone and had no one with him as he then walked up the stairs and into the entrance door next to the library."
"When asked by det. Demmel how she knew it was [redacted] (Perry), she said that Perry was pigeon toe'd [sic] and that the person was walking that way and went up the stairs in a very distinct pigeon toe'd [sic] manner." (Source: p.2364)
"At this time I brought out photos #51 and 54 and had Crystal view them. Crystal looked at Dylan klebold and said that she believed that is the person she saw on the top of the hill. Crystal said that when she saw the male on the hill, he did have a baseball cap on, but in the pictures there is no baseball cap. I asked Crystal if it's a possibility that she saw Dylan and not [redacted] (Perry). She said yes, after looking at the pictures, she does believe that it was Dylan and not [redacted] (Perry)." (Source: p.2370)
Witnesses removed for other reasons
1. David Eagle [pp.1877-1886]
Eagle did not identify any suspects because he didn't see any faces. Eagle was removed from the list because the inability to identify a suspect doesn't, by itself, constitute support for a third shooter.
Peering through a classroom window, Eagle saw 1 suspect matching Dylan Klebold's description. He didn't know Klebold or Harris from school and didn't recognize the suspect as Harris or Klebold based on photos broadcast by the media. However, Eagle acknowledged that he never saw the suspect's face due to smoke. If he never saw the suspect's face, he wouldn't recognize the photos of Harris & Klebold's faces.
From Eagle's interview:
"The guy with the gun had black hair looked like it was spiked, shaved on the sides. It also was blond on top (little part). Couldn't see his face because of the smoke. He was a white male, about 5'9", about 18 yrs old, no facial hair, (unsure didn't [??] because of smoke), clothing, he had a black shirt..." (Source: p.1878, p.1879)
"David described this person holding the gun as someone with black shaved hair with blonde streaks. The hair was longer on the top than it was on the bottom. He couldn't see any facial features because of the smoke and shadows. He has since seen pictures of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold on television. He did not know these students from school. David said that the person he saw did not look like the people he's seen on television.
David said that he saw the person with the gun from the chest up. He could see a black shirt; the sleeves stopping on the arms, like a tee shirt would fit. David said that there was another person standing next to the killer, but he couldn't see that person at all." (Source: 1881)
Revised list of testimony that could support a third suspect
Note that not every witness in this list is a definite match for support of a third suspect. Each witness testimony needs to be examined individually because some of them are more inconclusive than others. For example, some of the suspect descriptions match Harris or Klebold mostly, some testimonies are a clear case of transference and false memory, while other testimonies simply don't make sense. Some, however, strongly support the case for a third suspect.
1. Ann Marie Hochhalter [pp.215-216]
From Hochhalter's interview:
"...she observed two gunmen. The first gunman she described as a white male, black hair, brown eyes, black hat and boots, black cargo pants, black shirt, black trench coat, carrying a black vinyl duffel bag, round in shape and about two and a half feet long, with a black gun.
Number two gunman was a white male, with a shotgun, carrying a duffel bag, wearing all black to include a black trench coat."
"Hochhalter said at about this time they began to run to the cafeteria when gunman two shot her." (Source: p.216)
2. Ashley Egeland [pp.5247-5268]
From Egeland's interview:
"At this time Ashley stated that she observed two male subjects coming around the corner of the library hall into the North hall. Ashley advised that both subjects were armed. According to Ashley as soon as both subjects saw her and "Lacey" they started shooting at them. Ashkey said that they both ran back down the gym hall and into the gym." (Source: p.5248)
"Ashley identified the shooters as Eric Harris and [redacted]. According to Ashley, [redacted] was dressed in a white shirt with a black trench coat over it. She said that Morris was armed with a hand gun while Harris was armed with a shotgun. Ashley said that she was not sure about [redacted]'s identity until her sister Heather showed her a Columbine yearbook and she saw his picture in the book. Ashley is sure the two shooters she observed were Eric Harris and [redacted]." (Source: p.5249)
3. Bijen Monte [pp.1014-1026]
From Monte's interview:
"MONTE stated she was certain it was [redacted] standing over the two kids (Lance Kirklin and Daniel Rohrbough). She stated on a scale of 1-10, 1 being uncertain and 10 being positive she was 8+1/2-9 it was he."
"She stated [redacted] had a gun hanging from his neck on some type of strap. The gun was all black and approximately 15-18 inches long. She stated it looked like a machine gun, and there was no duct tape on it. She stated that it was the only gun she saw him with and it was in his right hand."
"The following is a physical description of the man she saw with a gun:
He had on a black trench coat that extended to between his knees and his ankles.
He had on a black baseball hat in the backward position.
His face was long and his neck was long.
He had a narrow chin.
His teeth were crooked and he had an obvious overbite.
His complexion had lots of acne, there were indentations like pieces were cut out, and his face was white in color with some redness." (Source: p.1018, p.1019)
4. Brenton Hooker [pp.1464-1467]
From Hooker's interview:
"B. Hooker said he observed a tall kid with black trench coat and a baseball cap (on backwards) with curly hair and a half-mask on exit the same East doors."
"B. Hooker said he could not identify the shooter, but felt it might be an associate named [redacted]." (Source: (p.1465)
"Upon contacting Brenton, he stated that he made a mistake in his identification of [redacted]... Brenton stated that he, in fact, believes that the individual he saw was Dylan Klebold, at which time I showed him still photographs numbers 44, 47, 52, and 53, those photos were recovered from the videotape taken of the cafeteria on the incident date. Once Brenton was shown the photographs, he immediately identified Dylan Klebold as the shooter he saw at Columbine High School." (Source: p.1467)
We know that [redacted] is Robert Perry, because in the 10k report on page 16397, Perry's name has not been redacted from Hooker's interview.
From Hooker's 10k interview:
"When HOOKER reached the intersection of Pierce and West Fair Drive, he turned around and observed an individual he thought was ROBERT PERRY (ex-student of Columbine High School) standing outside the door just to the North of the main entrance shooting a pistol in his direction and at a group of students and ambulances parked at the intersection of Pierce and West Fair Drive. HOOKER saw dust kick up near the edge of Pierce Street from the gunshots and he contiued to run East on West Fair Drive for a short distance then he turned around and looked back at the school and could no longer see the individual."
"HOOKER described the individual he thought was PERRY as 6'8"-6'11" in height, very skinny, tight black pants, black trench coat (knee length), sunglasses, black mask covering mouth and nose. HOOKER advised he spoke with another student whom he identified as TERRY LAWSON who stated he had seen PERRY in the school commons are earlier that day on April 20, 1999." (Source: p.16397)
What's interesting is that on page 16398, the CBI officer made a note that it would have been difficult to positively identify anyone from where Hooker was when he saw the suspect. I've not come across any other instance where a note like this is made - not even in other interviews that identify Perry from a distance.
"On April 22, 1999, HOOKER returned to the school site with Agents GRIFFITH and MUNDINE and showed them exactly the position of the shooter and his location when he saw the shooter. This location was approximately 200 yards East of the shooter's location outside the door. From this position it would be difficult to positively identify anyone, especially while being shot at." (Source: p.16398)
5. Cara Sander [pp.1121-1124]
Sander saw two suspects, one matching Eric Harris' description and the other suspect description only matched Klebold's appearance in terms of height, weapon, and trench coat.
Sander looked through a yearbook to find the suspect she saw and picked out a photo of [redacted]. That was the first time she saw [redacted]'s photo and the first time she learned his name. (Source: p.1132)
The photo Sander found in the yearbook matched the description she gave to investigators. Sander picked [redacted]'s photo out of the 1998 Columbine yearbook in two locations - a regular student photo and she also found him in the Trench Coat Mafia group photo. Although the name has been redacted, it's believed that Sander identified Brian Sargent since he is in the Trench Coat Mafia group photo and matches Sander's description.
From Sander's interview:
"She described the gunman as a white male with a very full face, "pudgy, overweight." The gunman had dark hair, possibly 1 1/2" long. He had dark eyes and dark thick bushy eyebrows." (Source: p.1122, p.1123)
"Sander stated there was a white male standing a few feet from the gunman. She stated the white male had no facial hair, was wearing a white t-shirt, short sleeved, possibly with some red and black writing on the front." (Source: p.1123)
"...she saw the pictures of the two deceased suspects, Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, on the TV. She stated neither of these two suspects were the gunman she observed at the top of the stairway holding the gun that she saw after she exited the cafeteria. Sander stated the suspect she saw had a fuller face with darker eyes, and thick dark eyebrows. Sander looked over numerous photos, and then pointed to a picture and said, "that looks like him." The person in the photo that Sander pointed at was [redacted]."
"[redacted]'s photo shows him to be a more heavy set individual with a round face, short dark hair, and eyebrows that are dark and could possibly be considered bushy." (Source: p.1124, p.1125)
6. Chris Wisher [pp.1261]
Wisher only saw two suspects. The first suspect matched Klebold's description, but Wisher could not identify him. Wisher told investigators he didn't recognize the person, but thought it might be [redacted], a Trench Coat Mafia member, who was about the same height and build.
Wisher did not actually identify [redacted], he told investigators it was his "first impression based on association that he identified [redacted]." That does not qualify as suspect identification. Wisher's testimony further confirms this, "Wisher stated he only got a partial look at both gunmen and could not identify either person by name. Wisher stated he was only able to give a clothing and physical description of the individuals.
When shown photographs of Eric Harris & Dylan Klebold, Wisher positively identified both as the individuals he saw and confirmed that the photo of Eric Harris was the individual he observed throwing bombs on the roof of the school. (Source: p.1266)
Did Wisher see three suspects at once? It's unlikely. Wisher only mentions two suspects in his initial testimony - one suspect in a black trench coat and the other in a white t-shirt. Wisher only adds in a third suspect in his follow-up interview where he says he saw two suspects in black trench coats and one suspect in a white t-shirt.
Since early testimony is generally more reliable, it's unlikely that Wisher saw three suspects. However, like many others, Wisher reported seeing the person in the white t-shirt throwing bombs wearing blue jeans. Although he identified this suspect as Harris, it's curious that he, along with many others, saw this person wearing jeans. Wisher was somewhere between 50-100 yards away when he witnessed this.
From Wisher's interview:
Original testimony: "About 50 yards away, outside on the West side of the cafeteria, he saw a tall white male, dressed all in black, with a black trench coat, and what he thinks was a black hat and dark sunglasses. At time time, he did not recognize this person, but thought it might be [redacted], a member of the Trench Coat Mafia who is about the same height and build." (Source: p.1263)
"Wisher also saw a white male dressed in a white short-sleeved tee shirt and blue jeans, kneeling with his back to him... Wisher saw this perosn throw an object one-handed on top of the cafeteria/library roof. It appeared metallic with sunlight glinting off of it, and one to two seconds after landing it exploded with a loud bang, a flash of fire, and a pall of smoke." (Source: p.1264)
Revised testimony: "Me and my friends were about 100 yards away from the people. There were 3 of them, 2 wearing trench coats & 1 wearing a white shirt... We got up & saw the kid in the white throw what looked like grenades on the roof." (Source: p.1262)
7. Courtney Haulman [pp.839-844]
Haulman saw three males in black trench coats standing near the West entrance to the school at the top of the stairs where the shooting began.
From Haulman's interview:
"There was three guys, the guy I remember most was the main guy. He's over 6 feet tall and has long curly dark-colored hair. He was wearing a black trench coat. His name is [redacted]." (Source: p.840)
"Haulman stated that she observed three males in black trench coats standing next to the stairs which lead [sic] to the West entrance of the school. Haulman described gunman number one as a white male, approximately 17 yoa, 6'3", medium build, long curly dark hair, wearing a black trench coat, dark colored pants, carrying a long gun (unknown color).
Haulman described gunman number two as a white male, 16 to 17 yoa, shorter than gunman number one, medium build, no hat, no mask, dark clothing, to include black trench coat, with grenade type things hanging on his shirt, dark in color.
Haulman described perceived suspect number three as a white male with a black trench coat, white shirt, carrying something odd in shape (unable to describe). Haulman stated that she recognized gunman one and two as individuals she had seen in school before." (Source: p.841)
"Haulman stated that while standing outside on the Southwest corner of the cafeteria, peeking around the corner, she observed gunman number one and two standing in close proximity of each other and that the third gunman was standing above them on the stairs." (Source: p.842)
"...she looked around the corner and observed what she thought was two persons with weapons and a third person with them possibly talking to them or yelling at them and that she could not tell if the third party had a weapon... Haulman was shown photos #46, 48, 51, and 54 and she was unable to identify anyone in the photos and did not know if these were the same persons she had seen doing the shooting." (Source: p.844)
8. Dick Strange [pp.1193-1195]
Strange was a mechanic working for the Foothills Park and Recreation District and was with a client at Clement Park when the incident began. While he reported seeing "four to five" people in trench coats, he saw only one suspect with a weapon that matched Harris' description.
Strange reported seeing "four to five" individuals in black trench coats standing near the Columbine High School gym at 11:45 a.m. Strange says he then saw the individuals walk toward the cafeteria side of the school and he drove along a bike path toward the school and lost sight of the people in trench coats.
When he got to a small structure near the baseball field, he said he saw an individual dressed in a trench coat by the Southwest entrance who then dropped his coat, pulled out two guns, and started firing at students around the soccer field.
The suspect described by Strange matches Harris, since Harris dropped his coat in front of the Southwest entrance of the school and then began firing at kids on the soccer field. However, his timing might be a little bit off.
From Strange's interview:
"It was there at approximately 11:45 am that STRANGE first observed four to five individuals, all dressed in black trench coats, standing alongisde CHS in the vicinity of the gymnasium... STRANGE then observed these individuals walk Southwest along the high school, heading from the gym towards the cafeteria side of the school."
"As the two men reached the small structure located near the outfield fence of the Southernmost CHS baseball field, STRANGE began hearing what he thought was possibly firecrackers going off. He then observed one individual, dressed in a trench coat, standing in front of the Southwest entrance of CHS, the one with the big glass doors. STRANGE saw this person drop his coat, pull out two guns and begin firing at students socializing in and around the soccer and football field areas. STRANGE also heard explosions going off at this time." (Source: p.1194)