Cafeteria Shooter

Witnesses who saw a shooter in the cafeteria

Renee Paavilainen [pp.4004-4011]    

"While people were fleeing, Paavilainen thought she saw, through a window in thee room, one of the gunmen run East by the serving line. He was short, had brown hair, and was waring a black jacket. He was not wearing a mask or hat. From Paavilainen's angle, she could not tell if the jacket was long. Paavilainen did not see anything in his hands and did not recognize him. Paavilainen thought he was firing while running." (11k, p.4005)

"As she sat in the kitchen hiding, she witnessed a lone white student running towards the inside stairs in the cafeteria about 5-7 feet away from her. The student was wearing a black jacket, unknown if it was open or zipped up, or if it had a hood, and the length of this jacket was unknown. The serving line countertop blocked a portion of her view. The student had ear length brown hair, no hat. She believed he was about 5'6" tall. She did not see this student carrying any type of a weapon, as she did not see his hands. She originally told Agent Wright that she believed the student was firing a weapon while running. Renee believed this because the pop, pop noise became louder as the student ran by them towards the steps." (11k, p.4010)

"Renee recalled that her friend, Sarah Brown, who was hiding next to her, said, "did you see that." They believed based on the noise that the student was firing a weapon." (11k, p.4011)

Adam Kyler [pp.243-250]

"Witness Kyler said when he turned around and looked towards the South wall of the cafeteria, he saw a student he knows as Dylan Klebold entering one of the doors along the South wall of the cafeteria and said Klebold came in through the cafeteria. Witness Kyler advised Klebold was alone at this time and when witness Kyler head three or four shots coming from the area of Klebold, he got up and ran in a Northern direction through the cafeteria." (11k, pp.246-247)

Lacey Smith [pp.4464-4475]

Smith describes a [REDACTED] 6'5" - 6'6" tall individual as wearing a backwards black hat with greasy hair sticking out of his backwards hat, a white t-shirt under a black trench coat, black jeans, and black leather shoes, like Reeboks. This redacted individual is Robert Perry, who did not attend Columbine, but was seen there nearly every day anyway. We know she named Perry because on page 4470, one instance of his name was left unredacted. When shown a photo lineup, Smith was asked to identify anyone she knew. She immediately pointed to Dylan Klebold and identified him correctly by name, but said that the person she saw (Perry) was not in the lineup. She stated she was "100% sure" the person she saw was Perry.

Smith's description of Perry matches the additional suspect seen in the library hall wearing a black trench coat over a white t-shirt with a backwards hat. This description also matches the suspect Gardner described having a shootout with.

Smith saw this [REDACTED] individual enter the cafeteria near Rebel Corner and she said hi to him, addressing him by name, and he said hi back to her as he kept walking into the cafeteria. Shortly after, she saw him firing into the cafeteria.

"She stated that when he stopped, facing toward the main area of the cafeteria, she heard what she described as "rapid fire" shooting coming from [REDACTED], and observed him "turning." She described him as "shooting from the hip." Smith said, "the noise was coming from him." She described the noise as "piercing" and "loud." It made her ears ring. She also heard glass breaking, but did not see where this was occurring. Smith could not tell how many shots she heard, but believed it was less than 15." (11k, p.4466)

Investigators told Smith that her recollection was "not supported by physical evidence, such as shell casings in the area where he was seen." She then concluded that he must not have been shooting. (11k, p.4469)

Several months later, investigators contacted Smith's mother to get another interview with Smith, where she completely recanted her initial story. It seems she was either threatened or pressured into recanting.

Lacey Smith recanted under pressure

"I brought it to Lacey's attention where she specifically told investigators that she identified Robert Perry as entering into the cafeteria via Rebel Corner, at which time she said hi to Perry. As Perry passed her and was near the commons area of the cafeteria, she then explained that Perry pulled a weapon out from under his trench coat and started firing into the cafeteria. Lacey was asked if she was sure in theses statements, at which time she told me that she has a vivid imagination and is unclear on exactly what she saw occur in the cafeteria on April 20, 1999." (11k, pp.4473-4474)

"I asked Lacey if she was identifying this person as being Robert Perry, at which time she told me that she didn't know who the individual was. I asked Lacey if she was sure about that, and Lacey stated she can't even tell me if the individual was Robert Perry or if he was wearing any type of a trench coat. I explained to Lacey that there is a discrepancy in the initial report she filed with Detective Jeff Kreutzer, where she specifically tells him that she saw Robert Perry walk into the cafeteria wearing a trench coat and in fact, she said hi to the individual. Lacey told me that she doesn't recall exactly what she said to the person, but she thinks she did say hi, greeting the party, but again, told me that she is not sure if this person was Robert Perry."

"I, again, referred Lacey to the report which was generated by Detective Kreutzer and asked her why she told the detective that she described seeing the individual moving from side to side and described rapid fire shooting coming from the individual, telling the detective that she believed the party had a gun concealed under his long coat. Lacey told me that, again, she has a viicd imagination and she could not positively tell me if the individual had a firearm of any sort. I asked Lacey about the gunfire coming from the area where the individual was located and she told me at this point, she doesn't know if the gunfire was coming within the cafeteria or if it was coming outside the cafeteria." (11k, p.4474)

"Lacey stated she could not identify Robert Perry as being involved in this incident, telling me that she does not even recall what the party was wearing... Again, Lacey told me that she did not see the party with any type of a weapon and could not tell me where the gunfire was coming from." (11k, p.4475)

Brock Rembold [pp.4176-4182]

"...the janitor was yelling to the students to get out of the cafeteria area. Brock then describes seeing two individuals enter the North/West doors of the cafeteria. The first party he describes as being 5'6" - 5'8" white male with a white t-shirt on, faded black or blue jeans. This individual was not wearing a face mask and did not have a black trench coat on. He stated it is unknown if this individual was a part of this incident, telling me this party did not have a weapon. The second party he described seeing enter the door was about 5'10" - 5'11", telling me the individual was wearing a black trench coat and had a face mask on. He stated this individual was carrying a weapon. He described the weapon as a double barrel shotgun and that the party had a dark colored backpack on."

"Brock stated the party was walking along the West windows and then started running towards the stairs, which were located on the East side of the cafeteria. After seeing this individual, Brock stated that he and several other individuals started to walk towards the stairs and behind them they could hear gunfire. They believed it was coming from the individual who had entered the cafeteria from the North/West doors."

"Brock stated as they started to walk up the stairs from the cafeteria, they passed a second gunman, who he stated was Dylan Klebold. He stated he passed within six feet of Dylan on the stairs as he continued upstairs en route to the tech lab. Brock described Dylan Klebold as 6'4" to 6'5", stating Dylan was wearing a black trench coat. He had a face mask on, which covered the top of his head and dow just below his nose. Dylan was wearing his favorite hat, a Boston Red Sox hat, which was turned around backwards and that the "B" which is normally on the front of the cap was on the back side of the baseball cap, near the adjustment band. Brock stated that Dylan was carrying a large military type of gun and was moving real slowly, describing it as a "casual walk." (11k, p.4177)

"Brock stated that Dylan also had a black of navy blue backpack on. Brock was asked how he could positively identify this person as Dylan Klebold. He stated he has had contact with Dylan in the past because Dylan is such a fan of the Boston Red Sox and they talked about the team before... He also stated that Dylan has a quite distinguishable chin, and there was no question when he saw Dylan on the stairs that he knew it was Dylan Klebold." (11k, p.4178)

Rembold went upstairs into a science lab room and saw the same suspect from the cafeteria still carrying the double barrel shotgun, this time in the hall. This was not Klebold, so who was carrying Klebold's double barrel shotgun?

Rembold was discredited by investigators

Rembold said the suspect he passed on the stairs and identified as Dylan was wearing a mask similar to a paintball mask, which had spray paint over it. Investigators told him since they only recovered a knit stocking mask at the scene, he was mistaken.

Don't they think that if a third or fourth shooter got away, they would take their mask with them? Even if this suspect was actually Dylan, it's possible they shared that mask and one of the other shooters left with the mask.

Investigators said that the green knit mask was found near Eric's trench coat at the top of the stairs, but that doesn't make sense because shooters were seen wearing masks long after Eric took off his coat, and they never returned to that area after entering the school.

Investigators also claimed that Klebold was not seen wearing a mask by other witnesses, but witness statements that mention a mask say otherwise.

"It is therefore this investigator's opinion that Rembold Brock is not being truthful in his report of seeing Dylan Klebold with a mask on the stairway leading from the South hallway to the cafeteria on 04-20-99. Brock will not be used as a critical witness in this investigation." (11k, p.4182)

Jake Apodaca [pp.652-657]

"After shooting at these three people, the shooter fired four or five times at Apodaca and his friends, who were about 40 to 50 yards away. They fell to the ground and after the shooter entered the school through the Southwest cafeteria entrance, they got up and ran to a nearby house on Teller Court." (11k, p.657)

It should be noted that Apodaca saw Klebold enter the cafeteria just prior to the 11:15 a.m. bell. Several of Klebold's friends said they saw Klebold driving his BMW into the parking lot between 11:15-11:20 a.m., but one witness reported seeing someone park Klebold's BMW and exit the vehicle wearing a mask and a black trench coat, and this individual walked up to the school shooting toward the cafeteria. Even if all of these people got the time wrong, this doesn't match known actions of Klebold. It seems that someone else parked Klebold's car (probably Robert Perry dressed like Klebold) since Klebold was already in the cafeteria.

Sarah Slater [pp.4433-4443]

"As she was going into the kitchen area, she could see people in black entering through the doors with her peripheral vision. As they came in, they were shooting guns." (11k, p.4435)

"She looked back over her shoulder when she heard shots and she saw what she thought was a bullet hitting near the serving line because she saw sparks fly from this point." (11k, p.4440)

Leigh Ann Clark [pp.2722-2728]

"Leigh Ann remembered seeing someone in black near the pop machines in the commons are when the shooting started. She stated she can't describe him." (11k, p.2726)

Nada Alami [pp.2285-2288]

"As she was running up the stairs and turned at the landing, she saw two white men below wearing dark trench coats inside the student entrance near "Rebel Corner." She did not see any weapons, but recalled they were right inside the student entrance doors... She then heard several rapid gunshots and believed the shots were being fired at the kids on the steps by these men inside." (11k, p.2287)

It should be noted that Alami was on one of their hit lists.

Shane Krey [pp.5904-5910]

Krey told his mother a different story than what he told investigators. He never mentioned a shooter in the cafeteria, but his mother told investigators what he told her the day of the shooting.

"When I was able to talk with Theresa Krey alone, she said on 04-20-99, when she spoke to Shane Krey about the incident, he told her something different. She said Shane Krey told her he had seen a gunman inside the cafeteria discharging several shots at random. She said Shane Krey told her this gunman could have shot many more people had he wanted to, but instead was shooting most of the rounds towards the ceiling. She also demonstrated how Shane Krey showed her the way the gunman was shooting from the hip, and said he told her the gunman was also shooting towards students as well as the ceiling." (11k, p.5906)

This is one of many statements that matches what Lacey Smith saw, but since Smith identified the shooter as Robert Perry, she was pushed to recant her story.

Melinda Gattoni [pp.3105-3116]

"Melinda had gotten down when she saw a person dressed in all black, wearing a trench coat with something dark wrapped around his upper face; she couldn't see if he was wearing a hat or not; walk into the cafeteria from the North door by the pop machines. Melinda stated that the party had a long black gun and was alone." (11k, p.3108)

It should be noted that Gattoni stated she was in the auditorium for a while when she began screaming and "was helped up and led out by another student that she stated was Matt Kechter: one of the victims that was then killed. Melinda reported that she ran into the main hallway and out of the East main entrance door. The glass from the door fell on them as they were going through it." (11k, pp.3108-3109)

That's interesting that she exited the school with Matt Kechter, considering it doesn't match other witness statements regarding Kechter being killed in the library and was never in the auditorium.

Brittany Gillette [pp.3136-3140]

"While under the table, she could hear shots, and she noted that students began to stand up and run for the stairs. She did the same, but fell as she went up the stairs and had a difficult time getting up because of an injury sustained from gymnastics. She lay on the stair landing and saw a male in a trench coat that she could not identify come through the door of the cafeteria." (11k, p.3137)

"She positively identified a photograph of Dylan Klebold as the gunman who entered the cafeteria on 4/20/99 as related in the interview conducted on 4/20/99." (11k, p.3140)

Sarah Scott [pp.4369-4371]

"Scott then heard shots and ran into the kitchen area and sat down and while peering over the counter, she observed a person with a black ski mask come into the cafeteria area using the West cafeteria door, and that she could only see him from the shoulder area up." (11k, p.4370)

Matthew Depew [pp.2825-2841]

"The suspect tried to get into the room that we were in, he couldn't get in so he started shooting." (11k, p.2828)

"Matthew then made his way to the back office of the kitchen. He heard glass breaking and gunfire. He stated he saw the shooter enter the West cafeteria door briefly." (11k, p.2836)

Sarah Brown [pp.2553-2559]

"Sarah stated that as she looked back over her shoulder, she thought she saw one of the suspects near the kitchen in the cafeteria with a gun. She stated she didn't see the gun clearly, however, she noticed that the suspect was dressed in a long, black coat and had his arms stretched out in front of him as if to be holding a gun." (11k, p.2555)

Joshua Buschman [pp.2604-2609]

"Josh saw two guys wearing all black and black dusters coming into the cafeteria by the doors near the Rebel store. Josh said they were white males, one 5-8, 5-9, and the other guy was taller. Josh said he didn't see them carrying any guns or throwing things, but he thought something was wrong because people were running away from them. Josh said he saw one of the guys reach into his trench coat like he was getting something." (11k, p.2606)

Mary Campbell [pp.2623-2634]

"I saw the one in the long black coat with a big black gun. He came around to where the Rebel Corner is and started shooting the people running up the stairs. He fired about 3-4 shots (big boom)."

Campbell said this suspect was 6'3"-6'4" with brown hair that stuck out of his hat, he had brown eyes, and was walking hunched over.

"She said that it was a short time after she'd lost sight of the suspect that he then appeared again by the student entrance into the cafeteria near the stairs. She thought he may have gone around the South side of the cafeteria and come in through the student entrance, although she did not see where he went or how he'd gotten into the cafeteria. She said that he then disappeared and then a short time later, reappeared with a second suspect, whom she described as Eric Harris." (11k, p.2628)

It should be noted that page 2625 from Campbell's interview is missing.

It should also be noted that the location Campbell marked on the map where she saw Klebold by the Rebel Corner is precisely where Lacey Smith says she saw Robert Perry, which again, investigators pressured her to recant her entire story.

Mary Campbell marks where she saw Dylan Klebold by the Rebel Corner store.

Brandi Malonson [pp.3633-3639]

"Brandi stated she saw a guy wearing a long black trench coat and a black ski mask inside the cafeteria. He was with another guy who was wearing a long black trench coat. The first guy had a gun inside his coat. She then saw him take something out of the coat and she then heard gunfire. She indicated where the gunmen were in the cafeteria and then where one of them moved toward table "RR." (11k, p.3635)

It should be noted that Malonson went missing not long after the shooting and is presumed to be dead.

Joey Marcotte [pp.3645-3647]

"Joey stated that she had seen the suspect come into the cafeteria wearing a black baseball hat, but she couldn't see his face very clear because it was covered up, but he was wearing an orange or white t-shirt with some kind of writing on it, then he had a trench coat on with some kind of automatic weapon. I asked Joey if she saw his hair, and she stated that she remembers that he had long curly black hair. I asked Joey if she could describe his pants and she stated that they were "real baggy" black jeans. I asked if the pants were some other type of material or jean material. Joey was certain they were jean material."

"Joey stated that she was under the table about an hour and a half, and that she heard a lot of angry yelling and cussing from someone with a "deep dark mean and scary voice." I asked Joey if she could tell me what they said, and she stated that the voice stated, "Today is the day the world comes to an end, today is the day we die." (11k, p.3646)

It should be noted that Marcotte also described some suspects that don't match Harris and Klebold's descriptions.

"Joey stated that he was wearing a blue baseball cap and that he had blonde hair. The suspect was wearing a white t-shirt with some kind of ammunition vest that was black and he had regular blue jeans on. I asked her if there was anything else she could remember about him and she stated that his t-shirt was splattered with blood. I asked Joey who she thought that was and she stated that she thought it was Dylan." (11k, p.3646)

Note that other people described a suspect in a white t-shirt and hat that they thought was Dylan or another suspect.

Kylee Morton [pp.3785-3792]

"She said that people had started making their way across the cafeteria toward the stairs and as she was standing looking across the cafeteria, she saw a person standing with a gun. She said this person was a male and was wearing dark clothes, black pants. He was wearing a light colored shirt and she could see a long gun silhouetted in his hands. She could not describe what type of long gun it was, but said it was definitely not a handgun. She said that she also believes that this person shot the gun several times. She said that she first observed this person near table SS, then e moved between the tables, ending up between table EE and the pillar. She said as this person was moving through the cafeteria, she turned and started to exit and could not identify this person."

"She said she saw people run into the kitchen and as people were running, she heard what she thought were five shotgun blasts, although she did not see anyone shooting. She added that she thought the suspect she saw in the cafeteria might have had a backpack on and did have dark hair." (11k, p.3787)

Justin Norman [pp.3928-3932]

"The shooter came in the door and bullets were flying past my head." (11k, p.3929)

"Norman states that he had left weight lifting class and had met Matt Katzenmeier in the hallway and that they walked to the cafeteria and approx. 11:20 and that while he was at the vending machines next to the West doors of the cafeteria, he heard shots out the West door and that he looked out and saw two people go down [Lance Kirklin & Daniel Rohrbough] and that Dylan Klebold then came into the cafeteria via those doors and started shooting, and that Klebold was shooting all over the cafeteria. Norman also related that as the bullets were going by whizzing by his head, that he was busy getting people out of the cafeteria."

"It should be noted that this is the first time this investigator has heard that Klebold entered the cafeteria by this door and that he also fired numerous shots from this location. When Norman described this alleged shooting from inside the West door of the cafeteria, he held his hands by his hips as if holding a gun and did a spraying or sweeping motion from this position as he described Klebold's actions."

"Norman stated that nobody was with Dylan and that Dylan was wearing a black trench coat, black boots, a "goofy" face, long blond hair, and a big nose." (11k, p.3931)

It should be noted that Norman's description of Klebold's actions match the actions of the suspect described by Lacey Smith, who recanted her entire story.

Johnny Strobel [pp.4564-4567]

Before seeing a shooter in the cafeteria, Strobel walked around to the tables outside the cafeteria and saw two males standing in the parking lot about 150 yards away. One had a long gun and mask, and the other had a long gun.

Strobel fled to Leawood Park, but realizing his brother might still be in the school, he returned to the cafeteria near the student store.

"From the area of the school store, he could see a gunman dressed in black next to the trophy cases... the gunman turned toward him, and although he is not certain, the gunman may have pointed the gun towards him and fired. He also heard what he believes was a second gunman at the top of the steps next to the trophy case, laughing." (11k, p.4566)

Erik Sunde [pp.4572-4578]

Erik Sunde saw a person matching Robert Perry's description walking toward the public pay phones by the school's front entrance around the same time Leigh Ann Clark saw Perry using the pay phones. (11k, p.4574)

"Erik stated that as he was near the stairs, he looked back over his shoulder quickly and saw two guys in black trench coats near the West cafeteria window. He stated one looked very close, almost possibly inside the cafeteria. He stated they both had sawed off shotguns and had on the long, black coats. He stated they were randomly shooting the area. Erik stated that one of the two had a black ski mask on." (11k, p.4575)

Sunde also stated that "As he drove out, the back window of his car was shot out." (11k, p.4576)

Nathan Vanderau [pp.4676-4686]

"Vanderau began crawling on his stomach towards the stairs on the opposite side of the cafeteria. He got behind a pillar when he heard three gunshots that sounded like a muffled .38 special. Vanderau saw a glimpse of a gunman come through the door that Mr. Sanders used to enter the cafeteria. Based on the gunman's clothing and a quick glimpse of his face, Vanderau believes the gunman was Dylan Klebold." (11k, p.4677)

"Nathan said that he started to crawl to the main entrance of the cafeteria and stopped at one point to hide by a pillar near table EE. While doing so, he observed Dylan Klebold walk into the cafeteria through the door near the teacher's lounge and vending machines. He was the only person standing up and he was walking around like he was in charge." (11k, p.4683)

Brittany Weeden [pp.4700-4704]

Weeden describes witnessing what appears to be the moment when Harris and Klebold came down the stairs and Harris fired at the propane tank from the cafeteria landing. However, she describes the suspect that is allegedly Dylan as wearing a black trench coat, which, according to the documents and CCTV footage, he was not wearing his coat at that time. He had already discarded his coat in the library.

Did Weeden witness the scene we see on the CCTV footage, or was it something else/someone else?

"Weeden recalls that someone threw something down the stairs that exploded and caused a light to break. After a while, two gunmen came down the stairs. One of the gunmen was wearing a white shirt, blue pants, and a vest, which held some of his gear. He also was carrying a rifle. The other gunman was wearing a black trench coat, black baseball cap, and had a smaller pistol-line gun. Weeden thinks the one in the black trench coat was the same gunman she saw on the stairs outside the cafeteria. Weeden could not describe the gunmen or their weapons any further."

"When they came down the stairs, the one in the white shirt stayed on the stairs while the one in the black trench coat walked to the Northeast corner of the cafeteria and started shooting at the tables and chairs in the middle of the cafeteria. Weeden heard the gunman on the stairs tell the gunman in the black trench coat to shoot from the Northeast corner of the cafeteria and then told him to come back and shoot from the Southeast corner."

"After the gunman in the black trench coat finished shooting, the gunman in the white shirt came down from the stairs, stood in the middle of the East end of the cafeteria, and started shooting at the middle of the cafeteria as well. Weeden does not know how many shots they fired. About this time, a large fire suddenly erupted in the middle of the cafeteria near the West pillar. Weeden does not know where the fire came from or what caused the fire. Weeden does not recall the fire being accompanied with any explosion." (11k, p.4702)

Brandi Wiseman [pp.4750-4761]

Wiseman was in the storage room with Matt DePew and other students.

"She said that she could hear gunshots and screaming throughout their entire time in the room. She said that the gunshots and screaming and bombs came from not only the cafeteria, but from the library above her." (11k, p.4753)

It's interesting to note that Wiseman stated that police broke out the faculty lounge window and there was a police offer kneeling on the ground below, and they were told to step on his back to climb out of the window. On the helicopter footage that shows them breaking out the window and rescuing students, there is no officer kneeling down with students stepping on him to exit the window.

Jessica Mallorey 

"As Jessica was on her way back to Mr. Tank's class, she stated that just after the passing bell had rung around 1115 to 1117, she had just reached the bathrooms, which are located at the East end of the math/science hallway, when she heard a couple of gunshots, which were coming from behind her, but she couldn't give me the exact location in the school where the gunshots were coming from. Jessica quickly glanced West down the hallway and described seeing two individuals dressed in black running down the stairs into the cafeteria area." (11k, p.1683)