Cafeteria Shooter

Witnesses who saw a shooter in the cafeteria

Renee Paavilainen [pp.4004-4011]    

"While people were fleeing, Paavilainen thought she saw, through a window in thee room, one of the gunmen run East by the serving line. He was short, had brown hair, and was waring a black jacket. He was not wearing a mask or hat. From Paavilainen's angle, she could not tell if the jacket was long. Paavilainen did not see anything in his hands and did not recognize him. Paavilainen thought he was firing while running." (11k, p.4005)

"As she sat in the kitchen hiding, she witnessed a lone white student running towards the inside stairs in the cafeteria about 5-7 feet away from her. The student was wearing a black jacket, unknown if it was open or zipped up, or if it had a hood, and the length of this jacket was unknown. The serving line countertop blocked a portion of her view. The student had ear length brown hair, no hat. She believed he was about 5'6" tall. She did not see this student carrying any type of a weapon, as she did not see his hands. She originally told Agent Wright that she believed the student was firing a weapon while running. Renee believed this because the pop, pop noise became louder as the student ran by them towards the steps." (11k, p.4010)

"Renee recalled that her friend, Sarah Brown, who was hiding next to her, said, "did you see that." They believed based on the noise that the student was firing a weapon." (11k, p.4011)

Lacey Smith [pp.4464-4475]

Smith describes a [REDACTED] 6'5" - 6'6" tall individual as wearing a backwards black hat with greasy hair sticking out of his backwards hat, a white t-shirt under a black trench coat, black jeans, and black leather shoes, like Reeboks. This redacted individual is Robert Perry, who did not attend Columbine, but was seen there nearly every day anyway. We know she named Perry because on page 4470, one instance of his name was left unredacted. When shown a photo lineup, Smith was asked to identify anyone she knew. She immediately pointed to Dylan Klebold and identified him correctly by name, but said that the person she saw (Perry) was not in the lineup. She stated she was "100% sure" the person she saw was Perry.

Smith's description of Perry matches the additional suspect seen in the library hall wearing a black trench coat over a white t-shirt with a backwards hat. This description also matches the suspect Gardner described having a shootout with.

Smith saw this [REDACTED] individual enter the cafeteria near Rebel Corner and she said hi to him, addressing him by name, and he said hi back to her as he kept walking into the cafeteria. Shortly after, she saw him firing into the cafeteria.

"She stated that when he stopped, facing toward the main area of the cafeteria, she heard what she described as "rapid fire" shooting coming from [REDACTED], and observed him "turning." She described him as "shooting from the hip." Smith said, "the noise was coming from him." She described the noise as "piercing" and "loud." It made her ears ring. She also heard glass breaking, but did not see where this was occurring. Smith could not tell how many shots she heard, but believed it was less than 15." (11k, p.4466)

Investigators told Smith that her recollection was "not supported by physical evidence, such as shell casings in the area where he was seen." She then concluded that he must not have been shooting. (11k, p.4469)

Several months later, investigators contacted Smith's mother to get another interview with Smith, where she completely recanted her initial story. It seems she was either threatened or pressured into recanting.

Lacey Smith recants under pressure

"I brought it to Lacey's attention where she specifically told investigators that she identified Robert Perry as entering into the cafeteria via Rebel Corner, at which time she said hi to Perry. As Perry passed her and was near the commons area of the cafeteria, she then explained that Perry pulled a weapon out from under his trench coat and started firing into the cafeteria. Lacey was asked if she was sure in theses statements, at which time she told me that she has a vivid imagination and is unclear on exactly what she saw occur in the cafeteria on April 20, 1999." (11k, pp.4473-4474)

"I asked Lacey if she was identifying this person as being Robert Perry, at which time she told me that she didn't know who the individual was. I asked Lacey if she was sure about that, and Lacey stated she can't even tell me if the individual was Robert Perry or if he was wearing any type of a trench coat. I explained to Lacey that there is a discrepancy in the initial report she filed with Detective Jeff Kreutzer, where she specifically tells him that she saw Robert Perry walk into the cafeteria wearing a trench coat and in fact, she said hi to the individual. Lacey told me that she doesn't recall exactly what she said to the person, but she thinks she did say hi, greeting the party, but again, told me that she is not sure if this person was Robert Perry."

"I, again, referred Lacey to the report which was generated by Detective Kreutzer and asked her why she told the detective that she described seeing the individual moving from side to side and described rapid fire shooting coming from the individual, telling the detective that she believed the party had a gun concealed under his long coat. Lacey told me that, again, she has a viicd imagination and she could not positively tell me if the individual had a firearm of any sort. I asked Lacey about the gunfire coming from the area where the individual was located and she told me at this point, she doesn't know if the gunfire was coming within the cafeteria or if it was coming outside the cafeteria." (11k, p.4474)

"Lacey stated she could not identify Robert Perry as being involved in this incident, telling me that she does not even recall what the party was wearing... Again, Lacey told me that she did not see the party with any type of a weapon and could not tell me where the gunfire was coming from." (11k, p.4475)

Brock Rembold [pp.4176-4182]

"...the janitor was yelling to the students to get out of the cafeteria area. Brock then describes seeing two individuals enter the North/West doors of the cafeteria. The first party he describes as being 5'6" - 5'8" white male with a white t-shirt on, faded black or blue jeans. This individual was not wearing a face mask and did not have a black trench coat on. He stated it is unknown if this individual was a part of this incident, telling me this party did not have a weapon. The second party he described seeing enter the door was about 5'10" - 5'11", telling me the individual was wearing a black trench coat and had a face mask on. He stated this individual was carrying a weapon. He described the weapon as a double barrel shotgun and that the party had a dark colored backpack on."

"Brock stated the party was walking along the West windows and then started running towards the stairs, which were located on the East side of the cafeteria. After seeing this individual, Brock stated that he and several other individuals started to walk towards the stairs and behind them they could hear gunfire. They believed it was coming from the individual who had entered the cafeteria from the North/West doors."

"Brock stated as they started to walk up the stairs from the cafeteria, they passed a second gunman, who he stated was Dylan Klebold. He stated he passed within six feet of Dylan on the stairs as he continued upstairs en route to the tech lab. Brock described Dylan Klebold as 6'4" to 6'5", stating Dylan was wearing a black trench coat. He had a face mask on, which covered the top of his head and dow just below his nose. Dylan was wearing his favorite hat, a Boston Red Sox hat, which was turned around backwards and that the "B" which is normally on the front of the cap was on the back side of the baseball cap, near the adjustment band. Brock stated that Dylan was carrying a large military type of gun and was moving real slowly, describing it as a "casual walk." (11k, p.4177)

"Brock stated that Dylan also had a black of navy blue backpack on. Brock was asked how he could positively identify this person as Dylan Klebold. He stated he has had contact with Dylan in the past because Dylan is such a fan of the Boston Red Sox and they talked about the team before... He also stated that Dylan has a quite distinguishable chin, and there was no question when he saw Dylan on the stairs that he knew it was Dylan Klebold." (11k, p.4178)

Rembold went upstairs into a science lab room and saw the same suspect from the cafeteria still carrying the double barrel shotgun, this time in the hall. This was not Klebold, so who was carrying Klebold's double barrel shotgun?

Rembold is discredited by investigators

Rembold said the suspect he passed on the stairs and identified as Dylan was wearing a mask similar to a paintball mask, which had spray paint over it. Investigators told him since they only recovered a knit stocking mask at the scene, he was mistaken.

Don't they think that if a third or fourth shooter got away, they would take their mask with them? Even if this suspect was actually Dylan, it's possible they shared that mask and one of the other shooters left with the mask.

Investigators said that the green knit mask was found near Eric's trench coat at the top of the stairs, but that doesn't make sense because shooters were seen wearing masks long after Eric took off his coat, and they never returned to that area after entering the school.

Investigators also claimed that Klebold was not seen wearing a mask by other witnesses, but witness statements that mention a mask say otherwise.

"It is therefore this investigator's opinion that Rembold Brock is not being truthful in his report of seeing Dylan Klebold with a mask on the stairway leading from the South hallway to the cafeteria on 04-20-99. Brock will not be used as a critical witness in this investigation." (11k, p.4182)

Sarah Slater [pp.4433-4443]

"As she was going into the kitchen area, she could see people in black entering through the doors with her peripheral vision. As they came in, they were shooting guns." (11k, p.4435)

"She looked back over her shoulder when she heard shots and she saw what she thought was a bullet hitting near the serving line because she saw sparks fly from this point." (11k, p.4440)

Sarah Scott [pp.4369-4371]

"Scott then heard shots and ran into the kitchen area and sat down and while peering over the counter, she observed a person with a black ski mask come into the cafeteria area using the West cafeteria door, and that she could only see him from the shoulder area up." (11k, p.4370)

Johnny Strobel [pp.4564-4567]

Before seeing a shooter in the cafeteria, Strobel walked around to the tables outside the cafeteria and saw two males standing in the parking lot about 150 yards away. One had a long gun and mask, and the other had a long gun.

Strobel fled to Leawood Park, but realizing his brother might still be in the school, he returned to the cafeteria near the student store.

"From the area of the school store, he could see a gunman dressed in black next to the trophy cases... the gunman turned toward him, and although he is not certain, the gunman may have pointed the gun towards him and fired. He also heard what he believes was a second gunman at the top of the steps next to the trophy case, laughing." (11k, p.4566)

Erik Sunde [pp.4572-4578]

Erik Sunde saw a person matching Robert Perry's description walking toward the public pay phones by the school's front entrance around the same time Leigh Ann Clark saw Perry using the pay phones. (11k, p.4574)

"Erik stated that as he was near the stairs, he looked back over his shoulder quickly and saw two guys in black trench coats near the West cafeteria window. He stated one looked very close, almost possibly inside the cafeteria. He stated they both had sawed off shotguns and had on the long, black coats. He stated they were randomly shooting the area. Erik stated that one of the two had a black ski mask on." (11k, p.4575)

Sunde also stated that "As he drove out, the back window of his car was shot out." (11k, p.4576)